Searing Flames v. Double Dragon - Guild Wars Forums

NocturnalLunacy · Jun 10, 2009, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Another player and I have been having a long drawn out arguement on what is better. Searing Flames or Double Dragon. I presently have DD equiped and do not feel the need to discard it for SF. I have attached my build that I am presently using. I am presently using a Deldrimor Fire Scepter Fire Dmg: 11-22 (Req. 9) Halves skill recharge of fire magic spells Energy +5 while health above 50% (green weapon) and an offhand Lian's Lantern Energy +12 (req 9) Fire Magic +1 Health +30 (green weapon). I have a survivor Flame Eye of Armor Fire Magic +1, etc. Now I have been getting beautiful responses from this build. First using the Fire attunement then the glyph of ele power and the DD. I have been hitting in excess of 160 damage with Liquid Flame and over 200 with Rodgort's Invocation. If I were to switch to SF then I would not be able to produce this kind of nuking power. Other players don't like it cuz the skill doesn't cause fire damage itself like SF. But I think they just don't know or understand exactly how to use it. This build may just be the DD build. Any thoughts?

Lux Aeterna · Jun 10, 2009, 10:06 AM // 10:06

That nuker build is pretty bad.

+14 damage on your fire nukes is not worth an elite slot, +30 still probably isn't worth the time it takes to buff because in that time you could've casted another heat for ~150 damage across an area. I mean really, the time it takes to even cast attunement taxes my patience when I play ele.

Searing flames is great but very energy intensive.

Do not ever say searing flames lacks nuking power.

I run savannah heat, or searing flames on the ele hero with bip on the necro.

NocturnalLunacy · Jun 10, 2009, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

That nuker build is pretty bad.

+14 damage on your fire nukes is not worth an elite slot, +30 still probably isn't worth the time it takes to buff because in that time you could've casted another heat for ~150 damage across an area. I mean really, the time it takes to even cast attunement taxes my patience when I play ele.

Searing flames is great but very energy intensive.

Do not ever say searing flames lacks nuking power.

I run savannah heat, or searing flames on the ele hero with bip on the necro.

Actually I would be at 20 fire while using DD. The buffing should be done before battle not during. I'ts like prep for a ranger. Do the buffing and run to battle throwing RI follow up with LF and then the gaze for the energy back and by then the foe should be dead. If not then you are up against a hugely powerful foe. If you were by yourself doing missions or whatever, then this would not be a good build. This build is dependent on other char also doing damage.

ajc2123 · Jun 10, 2009, 10:51 AM // 10:51

SF doesn't waste a weapon mod with +1, instead you can have 40/40 sets. The burning adds armor ignoring damage, and the range of SF is great. Multiple SF heros are more effective then multiple DD heros

IMO

G_MAGNUS · Jun 10, 2009, 11:04 AM // 11:04

On a side note, dom+4? (in case its a template)

Lux Aeterna · Jun 10, 2009, 11:13 AM // 11:13

So, you're getting +42 to rodgort's, +12 to searing heat, and +42 to liquid flame. Half this damage increase is from your elite, half is from a glyph which you must constantly reuse.

You'd get more damage than that just by bringing a second heat (Teinai's), and casting it during the time it would normally take you to buff with DD/glyph.

In general fire nukers will blow things up rapidly and cause lots of huge yellow numbers, the fact that your build can do this only means it's a fire ele -- many other builds would be more efficient at your purpose (setting things on fire, making things explode).

Searing flames is good, but slightly impractical due to its high energy cost.

Look into other elites such as elemental attunement and savannah heat, both will accomplish your task better and without using searing flames.

MagmaRed · Jun 10, 2009, 01:16 PM // 13:16

As noted, there is a decent amount of prep time for the boost to the spells you use for damage. Not only that, but DD only does damage if you are next to the target, not something you want to do often.... so the elite is wasted for damage, just provides damage boost.

Most important thing I noticed though.... you haven't done your second 15 attribute point quest yet. That or you didn't use them all when making that build. If you have all 200 attributes, you should be able to hit 12 Fire, 11 Energy Storage, and 6 Domination, although there is no use for the Dom. So that would allow you to hit 12 Fire and 12 Energy Storage.

Dont Nerf The Perma · Jun 10, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Its my personal opinion that SF is better. I've seen eles that echo SF and then spam it while under fire attunement then when they run out of energy they use glowing gaze. Its a pretty effective spike but you'd have to start it at full energy.

God of Tempest · Jun 10, 2009, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dont Nerf The Perma

Its my personal opinion that SF is better. I've seen eles that echo SF and then spam it while under fire attunement then when they run out of energy they use glowing gaze. Its a pretty effective spike but you'd have to start it at full energy.

Searing flames has a two second recharge, and keep in mind there's an aftercast. So, in other words, you should never have to arcane echo it. If your friend was smart, they'd be echoing glowing gaze.

It's my personal opinion that SF is better, though whenever I bring it, I also have 2+ hero eles using it to guarantee the foe is always burning and always taking big damage.

Xenomortis · Jun 10, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

The elementalist forums are a much more suitable place for this. In fact, did we really need two threads on the same subject?

My post in the other thread is what I stand by: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3&postcount=14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Fire damage is weak in PvE or at least, PvE beyond your average bit of Normal Mode.
The armour differences mount up and that 120 damage nuke gets reduced to 60 or even less. Adding a couple of attribute points isn't going to change that.

Double Dragon is therefore, a weak elite. The initial damage is weak and required you to be quite close to your enemies (though it's not too bad), but the +2 is certainly not worth your elite slot.

Searing Flames is by no means strong. It's conditional fire damage and burning. The difference is, SF will deal far more damage over a period of time than DD and provide greater synergy.

I should probably clarify a little. SF synergises with other SF eles - in that it inflicts burning. The burning condition also makes it synergise very nicely with the Paragon skill [They're on Fire]. It also makes for a much more reliable activation of Glowing Gaze.

Skills that add to attribute points are generally a waste. DD is basically an elite skill that does just that and is therefore, really wasteful.

DarkGanni · Jun 10, 2009, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Searing Flames all the way: -7 degen and 2 sec recharge with a lot of damage and not PBAoE, Eles are meant to stay away from melees not closer.

EDIT: My PvE Fire Build: OghjowMc4Q0NjVEDFRug4CIDXMA

Can replace elemental lord with aura of restoration or drop one of the heats for finish him or a group support skill (extinguish, aegis, protective was kaolai).

Coast · Jun 10, 2009, 06:28 PM // 18:28

How do u manage to run out of energy with sf while u got g gaze +glyph?
explain please

byteme! · Jun 10, 2009, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by NocturnalLunacy

snip

You are an Ele with incredibly weak armor. DD requires you to be relatively up close to your enemy. Bad combo. Bad skill. Don't even think about "tanking" or bringing Earth skills to buff your armor more, it'll just make your skill bar even worse.

Also fire dmg is non-armor ignoring. Therefore fire dmg in Hard Mode is pathetic. A Warrior auto swinging would yield better results. I'm dead serious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NocturnalLunacy

I have been hitting in excess of 160 damage with Liquid Flame and over 200 with Rodgort's Invocation.

Pwning in normal mode gives everyone a false sense of accomplishment. Try that skill bar in Hard Mode. If you can still achieve 160 - 200 dmg in Hard Mode with that exact same skill bar I'd like to see it. If you "say" you can without further proof no one will ever believe you.

As far as Fire magic is concerned. SF + Mindblast is about the only elites decent enough to use unfortunately.

Floski · Jun 10, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45

You don't. If my heroes can manage energy infinitely on their bars (SF, ggaze, glyph, attune) then you can too. They just spam spam spam without thought and they're always sitting at 50 energy.

Dont Nerf The Perma · Jun 10, 2009, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by God of Tempest

Searing flames has a two second recharge, and keep in mind there's an aftercast. So, in other words, you should never have to arcane echo it. If your friend was smart, they'd be echoing glowing gaze.

Well i don't have an ele, so i'm not exactly an expert. The ele i saw must have been echoing something, but you must be right whatever they were echoing it wasn't SF.

Jun 10, 2009, 10:06 AM // 10:06	#2
Lux Aeterna Jungle Guide Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: RAH Guild: Close Enough [XVII] Profession: W/A	That nuker build is pretty bad. +14 damage on your fire nukes is not worth an elite slot, +30 still probably isn't worth the time it takes to buff because in that time you could've casted another heat for ~150 damage across an area. I mean really, the time it takes to even cast attunement taxes my patience when I play ele. Searing flames is great but very energy intensive. Do not ever say searing flames lacks nuking power. I run savannah heat, or searing flames on the ele hero with bip on the necro. Last edited by Lux Aeterna; Jun 10, 2009 at 10:09 AM // 10:09..

Jun 10, 2009, 11:13 AM // 11:13	#6
Lux Aeterna Jungle Guide Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: RAH Guild: Close Enough [XVII] Profession: W/A	So, you're getting +42 to rodgort's, +12 to searing heat, and +42 to liquid flame. Half this damage increase is from your elite, half is from a glyph which you must constantly reuse. You'd get more damage than that just by bringing a second heat (Teinai's), and casting it during the time it would normally take you to buff with DD/glyph. In general fire nukers will blow things up rapidly and cause lots of huge yellow numbers, the fact that your build can do this only means it's a fire ele -- many other builds would be more efficient at your purpose (setting things on fire, making things explode). Searing flames is good, but slightly impractical due to its high energy cost. Look into other elites such as elemental attunement and savannah heat, both will accomplish your task better and without using searing flames. Last edited by Lux Aeterna; Jun 10, 2009 at 11:30 AM // 11:30..

Jun 10, 2009, 10:51 AM // 10:51	#4
ajc2123 Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: North of the wall Profession: Me/	SF doesn't waste a weapon mod with +1, instead you can have 40/40 sets. The burning adds armor ignoring damage, and the range of SF is great. Multiple SF heros are more effective then multiple DD heros IMO

Jun 10, 2009, 11:04 AM // 11:04	#5
G_MAGNUS Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Oct 2005 Guild: La Legion Del Dragon [LD] Profession: W/	On a side note, dom+4? (in case its a template)

Jun 10, 2009, 01:16 PM // 13:16	#7
MagmaRed Furnace Stoker Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Our Crabs Know True [LOVE] Profession: R/	As noted, there is a decent amount of prep time for the boost to the spells you use for damage. Not only that, but DD only does damage if you are next to the target, not something you want to do often.... so the elite is wasted for damage, just provides damage boost. Most important thing I noticed though.... you haven't done your second 15 attribute point quest yet. That or you didn't use them all when making that build. If you have all 200 attributes, you should be able to hit 12 Fire, 11 Energy Storage, and 6 Domination, although there is no use for the Dom. So that would allow you to hit 12 Fire and 12 Energy Storage.

Jun 10, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57	#8
Dont Nerf The Perma Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2009 Profession: A/D	Its my personal opinion that SF is better. I've seen eles that echo SF and then spam it while under fire attunement then when they run out of energy they use glowing gaze. Its a pretty effective spike but you'd have to start it at full energy.

Jun 10, 2009, 06:13 PM // 18:13	#11
DarkGanni Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Malta Guild: [CuTe] Profession: E/	Searing Flames all the way: -7 degen and 2 sec recharge with a lot of damage and not PBAoE, Eles are meant to stay away from melees not closer. EDIT: My PvE Fire Build: OghjowMc4Q0NjVEDFRug4CIDXMA Can replace elemental lord with aura of restoration or drop one of the heats for finish him or a group support skill (extinguish, aegis, protective was kaolai).

Jun 10, 2009, 06:28 PM // 18:28	#12
Coast Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Belgium Guild: Whats Going On [sup] Profession: Mo/	How do u manage to run out of energy with sf while u got g gaze +glyph? explain please

Jun 10, 2009, 06:45 PM // 18:45	#14
Floski Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2007 Guild: Rank Three Plus Pug [deer] Profession: W/	You don't. If my heroes can manage energy infinitely on their bars (SF, ggaze, glyph, attune) then you can too. They just spam spam spam without thought and they're always sitting at 50 energy.